Xenia

[Iskanda]

First I want to introduce myself. My name is Holger and I'm living in germany. As I can't speak speak Portuguese, I use English and hope it is ok and you understand me.

Since the late 80ths we are in contact with Italian coffee (Espresso) and for some years we imported coffee machines from Italy.

 

Now we developed a coffee machine with some friends over more than 3 years and discussed the features for more than 1 year in the German coffee forum www.kaffenetz.de.

 

The machine is now close to the production and a few days ago I saw on www.kaffenetz.de the nice creation of Gilberto (his grinder and tamper). I asked if I can present our machine here - and here is my first post concerning the 'Xenia'.

 

The Xenia is developed in Germany and will be build in Germany (close to Berlin). Nearly all components are made in Europe (Italy and Germany) - except 3 (glass tank for water, the driptray made of ABS and the ardunio-based control board).

 

 

 

We build only this one machine as it covers a wide range of features and wishes. The machine can be used as a kind of basic version (Xenia B, HX-machine) and can be upgraded to the version DP (with 2 PID-controllers). It is also possible upgrade the machine to a dual-boiler - but actually we have no reasons to offer it, as the machine is very stable. However there is space for and additional boiler and the controlboard with a 32bit-processor is able to handle the additional tasks.

 

Apart from the possibility to upgrade the machine, it is possible to customize the machine. We have i.e. a beautiful black faced, handles made of of olive wood or metal. There are joystick-valves for steam and water and you can swap the position of the steam and water valve (fore left-handed persons). The glass tank for water can be lifted or slided out to the left or right (if there are wall cupboards).

We made many measurements to find the best stability concerning the brew temperature and we developed a kind of new brewgroup which allows is to have influence of the brew temperature.

 

The machine is not controlled by a standard control box, but by a own developed board which is based on the arduino project (in fact it is a ardunio Due) with a lot of input and output ports. The advantage is that we can implement new features if we want - just by using the arduino-IDE and connect the board by USB to the PC - and we are not depending on a external manufacturer.

 

Even the machine offers a lot of nice feature - it is still a small machine and suitable for many kitchens.

 

We didn't made everything in another way compared to other machines and we don't think that the Xenia is a breathtaking revolution in the coffee business. But we improved several things and we see now that the people in middle Europe like the flexible concept and beautiful small machine.

 

 

If you understand German, you will find 4 threads on www.kaffeenetz.de with some thousands of comments and proposals:
https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/x-e-n-i-a.92908/
http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/x-e-n-i-a-eine-neue-maschine.87167/
http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/x-e-n-i-a-elektronik-und-steuerung.88577/
http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/x-e-n-i-a-designfragen.89613/

 

Our website is providing many information in English: http://truly-coffee.de/index.php/en/

 

I will try to post some pictures / videos in your photo/video section. But you will find many pictures on facebook (of the machine, of the components and the measurements concerning the brew temperature):

https://www.facebook.com/Xenia.Espressomaschinen/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums

 

On vimeo you find a video:

 

If there are any questions concerning the machine - feel free to ask me. I can reply in German and English

[Burny]

Hi Holger,

Great to read about the Xenia here. I have been following the project on the Kaffeenetz for a while and the Xenia is ranking very high on my to buy list (together with the Strietman). Have you thought about selling the Xenia in Brazil with a local distributor? With the currently high dollar and extreme import taxes (about 80% in the end I guess) importing espresso machines in Brazil is quite challenging and I believe that ECM (distributed by Café Expresso Brasil in Rio) is currently the only European respresentation in the Home sector.

Cheers

Björn

[Iskanda]

Great to read about the Xenia here. I have been following the project on the Kaffeenetz for a while and the Xenia is ranking very high on my to buy list (together with the Strietman). Have you thought about selling the Xenia in Brazil with a local distributor?

 

Thank you I haven't thought about selling the machine in Brazil - it was just a my pleasure to present it here.

 

 

Great to read about the Xenia here. I have been following the project on the Kaffeenetz for a while and the Xenia is ranking very high on my to buy list (together with the Strietman). Have you thought about selling the Xenia in Brazil with a local distributor? With the currently high dollar and extreme import taxes (about 80% in the end I guess) importing espresso machines in Brazil is quite challenging and I believe that ECM (distributed by Café Expresso Brasil in Rio) is currently the only European respresentation in the Home sector.

 

I don't know if the dollar is having influence but 80% taxes is a nightmare.

 

However...may be one day. The machine was build because there have been 2 main reasons: We consider it as possible that (1) the existing concepts of machines could be improved without having serious raised costs and (2) we wanted to have a machine which is not very expensive for non-european markets (esp. in Asia for coffee shops, restarurantsa and private persons). The concept allows it to build the machine 'everywhere' and adapt it to the needs. This can fit also to your country

[Rodrigoks]

Iskanda, you're welcome!

Nice work with Xenia.

[Iskanda]

Thank you

[lipe_oa]

Welcome my friend.

This is a nice work with a huge potencial to become a important home machine.

I prefer the D version with rotary pump, it is a dream for a home user like me.

[Miyamoto]

Nice, but it's very esquisitinha né não?

[Iskanda]

Welcome my friend.

This is a nice work with a huge potencial to become a important home machine.

I prefer the D version with rotary pump, it is a dream for a home user like me.

 

Thanks

 

Actually we work on a version where the machine is having rotary pump and water tank as we found a smaller rotary pump. It seams that it can work and the pump is on the way to try it.

 

 

 

The version D will be probably not build, as the difference in stability is very very small to the Dual-PID-version (due to the new control board). We can control easily the brewgroup and the boiler the same time (but the control of brewgroup is the main advantage of the concept and that's why we don't use a E61-group). We think: no 2nd boiler is neede but we will try it one day in the near future.

[Jose Alexandre]

Nice, but it's very esquisitinha né não?

olha o miyamoto jogando água no azeite dos outros.

eu gostei.

projeto muito interessante.

tbm acho que um importador local pode facilitar as coisas por aqui.

[Iskanda]

but it's very esquisitinha né não?

 

May be - but why ?

[lipe_oa]

I think is because of the shape very square.

One question, which is the boiler size? And the HX?

[sergio.m]

Very nice Iskanda, congratulations!

 

Can you explain the thermal concept of the DP configuration?

 

And how long to get ready after turn on? Time between shots?

[Murilo Lins]

What is the estimated selling price in euros or dollars?

[Burny]

Nice, but it's very esquisitinha né não?

Miyamoto, there is also a polished steel version with a more conservative look. I personally like the black version with the wooden handles a lot!

[lipe_oa]

Murilo, I think these are the prices

 

http://truly-coffee.de/index.php/en/preise-xenia

 

I agree with Burny, black ( if possible matte) and wood.

[Lisboa Santos]

@iskanda, very nice job! and welcome aboard CdC Forum.

 

@sergio, check "Xenia - the concept" (in the English link provided above) for more technical informations, is worth the reading. About the start up time:

"With two 150-watt cartridges, the brew group reaches the desired temperature in only about 11 minute."

[Iskanda]

I will explain a bit more this evening or tomorrow

 

Now is time for a Pizza and a

[Miyamoto]

As Burny said above,I prefer machines in polished steel. Just my opinion. But I think the front panel has a lot of things in a small space. For example, the leds are just behind hot water wand.

 

The concept is Ok. Congratulations.

[Burny]

Miyamoto, I agree that the position so near the water wand isn't best. But have a look at the links about the thermal and modular concept of this machine. This is all very very well thought!

[sergio.m]

Lisboa, I was fooled by some broken pages using the cellphone. Now I found the details and I will read. Thanks.

[Gilberto]

 

The HX ends up working like a thermoblock, am I mistaken?

[sergio.m]

Iskanda, now I've read all. The empty HX tube is a very clever idea, congrats!

 

Just a question. What happens to the extraction temperature when the water in the reservoir is very different from 20 C (15 C or 27 C). It will get one offset, right?

 

Perhaps you need to compensate this by using one temperature of the boiler that depends on the temperature of the reservoir?

[seiti]

How to pronounce Xenia? X = Z ?

Nevertheless, looks like an incredible machine.

[sergio.m]

Gil, praticamente, mas é melhor chamar de hx mesmo.

 

É um tubo que entra água fria de uma lado e sai do outro quente. Como esse tubo sempre começa seco e a temperatura em volta é a do boiler, *o quanto* a temperatura vai subir é bem consistente.

 

Só que o *quanto* é uma constante. Por isso minha pergunta para ele. A temperatura de saída vai depender da de entrada. E sendo (pelo menos por enquantO) a temperatura do boiler fixa...

[lipe_oa]

Sergio não li o funcionamento, confesso, então vou dar uma de preguiçoso e perguntar antes de ler.

Como se esvazia o HX depois de uma extração? 0.o

[Rodrigoks]

Suponho que a troca de calor com o grupo seja projetada de forma a compensar pequenas variações de temperatura da água dentro de determinada faixa após a saída da HX. Imagino que , salvo um isolamento muito perfeito, a temperatura de entrada na caldeirinha varia de acordo com a proximidade dos dutos de água da fonte de calor, começando possivelmente ligeiramente mais quente e terminando um pouco mais frio. Quanto mais tempo inerte, seria possível que a água mais próxima da caldeira fique cada vez mais quente. Por outro lado, a troca de calor é mais intensa quanto maior a diferença de temperatura. Vamos ver o que Holger tem a dizer.

[Wagner Castilho]

Muito bom o tópico, para mim, tremenda novidade. Eu não consegui fazer a citação, enfim, no post #3 ele diz ser possível construir a máquina em qualquer lugar. Seria o que? Importar as peças e montar aqui, tipo montadora de veículos? Ou um contrato de cessão de direitos e as peças seriam feitas aqui ou compradas aqui? Não entendi muito bem a parte estritamente técnica...

 

Enfim parabéns ao Holger e sua turma pelo trabalho, eu gostei da máquina e essa possibilidade de vários mod's é um sonho de consumo para "hobistas".

 

E parabéns novamente ao Gil, nosso embaixador do CDC, uou!!!!

 

Cada vez curtindo mais nosso clube... pena eu estar tão duro, o dolar tão alto e enfim... a vida como ela é...

 

bjs., abraços e apertos de mão à todos!

[sergio.m]

Lipe, a 3 vias é antes do hx, não depois como é o usual.

[lipe_oa]

Continuo sem entender como ele esvazia a água remanescente após a extrção.

Vlw ai Sergio. Amanha leio com calma pra entender a logica da coisa.

[Gilberto]

Lipe, ele colocou a valvula solenóide antes de entrar no HX e não junto ao grupo como todas as máquinas, logo quando se encerra a extração toda a agua do HX e grupo sai pela valvula solenóide. Como único incoveniente ele citou que pode vir restos de café na tubulação mas que se resolve com um fluxo sem café.